Ep 60: Free Will and Finding God In Times of Tragedy with Dana Roseman (Part 3)

Welcome to the catastrophic comeback podcast with American Injury Lawyer Clark speaks, helping you find hope, purpose and joy, after a catastrophic injury.

I kind of look at it like, now that you mentioned it, it makes me think of raising kids, you know, I can tell my kids, I can keep them safe, by making them stay in their rooms, you know, but then they don't have these, you know, like my back, I told you before my kids are, you know, do their go on boats from time to time, little by themselves, you know, 1415 years old, they could take the boat and go. And they know, they got, they got trained, and they've got licensed, and they've got insurance, and we've got, and we've taught them, but it's, but I mean, I want them to have that freedom, right, and that freedom to live and have a rich, full life. But I recognize that with that freedom comes responsibility. And when that freedom comes, risk, something terrible could happen.

You've done a couple of things in the way that that you you all have raised your children that really strikes me as being the key. And that is that you have made sure that as you have raised them, you've put the relationship with them before a set of rules. And, and as a result, they've responded, you know, I've watched where, like, last night, I was watching your two daughters, and the way they were communicating with you too. And in fact, Jan and I were talking about afterwards, I said, you know, it's obvious that they have put the relationship with their children first and really worked on developing that relationship. And it's, it's wonderful to see, well,

we saw you guys do that. I mean, you guys did did that. I don't remember. I don't remember. See you. So you have three children, two daughters and a son. And I always thought that it was I don't remember anybody ever doing anything. You know, at crazy out of bounds. Everybody was, even when the kids were young, they would they would be good kids they behaved they would take care of each other, they would take care of their family, they would be there for holidays, be there for special occasions, you know, support each other at graduations and moving and weddings and, and those types of things. And so, so that's kind of that's kind of that was kind of your MO too. Is that right?

It was interesting when Dan was 12 years old, he I forgot what happened exactly. But somehow Jan, got very close to him, and was able to smell cigarette smoke. And so he had been sneaking smokes from I think a friend of his had got him to aim. And so he was sneaking smokes on the side. And of course jam came me furious about that situation and said, You're gonna need to do something to fix that.

So that's a surprise to me, because I never knew those guys to do anything wrong. But I would always be on my best behavior because I'm like, I don't want to, I don't want to be the bad egg here. You know,

what was funny? I decided because I thought, you know, whatever I do, this is kind of important. I need to get this right here. And so I just I said, Okay, Dan, you and I are going to have talk in about two or three days, because I thought, first of all, I wanted some time to think about it. Because this was important. I didn't want him to start developing lifelong habits that could be harmful to him. And, and also, I wanted him to think about it. And and really I wanted him to be worried to be honest with you. So I remember we took a walk in the woods. And of course he was he was walking behind me as we went through the woods. And I found in fact, we talked about this recently. And he said yeah, it was kind of a weird walk. And but I knew what I was going to do, I'd already prepared ahead of time. And so when I did, he was almost 13 years old. And I said Dan, you know, in Jewish society, they have something called the bar mitzvah for boys. And it happens when you're 13. Because 13 is when a boy becomes a young man and is introduced into adult society. I said, you're almost 13 now. So the truth is, you and I both know that if you decide you're going to smoke, you're going to do it. You'll do it on the sly or whatever, but you will. And I said so let me just tell you right now, that if you decide you're going to smoke, that's okay. But remember, it's my house. You can't do it in my house. But if you choose to do it, you're almost a man at 13. And so I want you to think about it and take responsibility for whatever action you decide to do. And it shocked him because he thought he was gonna get yelled at and things like that, and that he owned Way back, he said, he was excited, he was very enthusiastic. But he said, I'm gonna quit, I'm gonna quit and but he made the decision on his own. I think that's where free will comes in you've, you've got to show your children or whoever it is in your life, a deep love and affection, but at the same time, they're gonna live their life, and you gotta give them set them free to do that.

So let's bring this back to, you know, our relationship with God in these difficult situations where tragedy strikes, you know, because I think that is a very similar dynamic, right? Or the least at least, that's the way that I look at it, is that maybe God lets us make our own decisions. You know, he let your friend get on that auger that day in the snow. Yeah. And if he doesn't operate safely, or have whoever built it didn't build it safely or designed it didn't design it safely, or an accident takes place for whatever reason. You know, he He lets us make those decisions and do those things. And then And then, and then we have to deal with the consequences. Yeah. You and I watched the Parker bird podcast yesterday. And we've, I think I've talked to you about some of the other podcasts just where people have done have overcome tragedies in some pretty remarkable way. Yes. What I want to ask you is, okay, if God lets those things happen, then it's almost as if he's absent from that piece of it. The question is, where is he present? You know, and the way I look at it is, I don't think he absent in that moment is necessarily the case, but But where does he show up?

Well, in Randy, Randy was a good, faithful son, I would say to God as well. And I, as I said earlier, I don't have an answer. So while on that one, it's, it's still when I think about it, a painful tragedy. So some of my answers, I don't have an answer.

Well, let's talk about that for a minute. Because I think that's I don't think many people who are pastors are people, my perception is that pastors feel like they gotta have an answer for everything. You know, and as I'm thinking about some of the guys that I've represented, who were paralyzed, or burned, or whatever, have some really lost children, or what are parents and these terrible situations, there's no good, there's nothing good about it. There's nothing redeeming about it, there's nothing that makes is going to be a nice, pretty bow. Yeah. In for me to try to make that a, a, a pretty put a pretty bow on that I think is disingenuous. And and I feel a compulsion to try to do that. You know, what I mean, some time to try to be optimistic and positive about it. But, but some things are just bad. Yeah. So I mean, so So as a pastor, you know, do you feel an obligation to sort of turn around and make a positive thing on it? Or is it? Do you see that some things are just bad or what have you? Yes, and

no, the world is filled with chaos. And some people are going to get called in it. And it's not even necessarily bad people, like say, Randy was good. And I think about the passage in Luke, where Jesus was talking about some of the Galileans pilot had had executed some of them or I don't know exactly what happened. It wasn't wasn't clear what happened. But it said their blood was sprinkled with, with the blood that was being offered to the false gods to the Roman gods. And Jesus asked the question, are those Galileans any worse than the other Galileans who weren't executed? The answer was no. Then he said, Okay, what about the tower at Siloam? It fell, and 18 people died when it fell. Now, were those 18 people any worse than the other shoe around? And so Jesus himself was saying that chaos, the things that happen, are not discriminatory. It's not like the bad thing. It's not like God's looking for the bad people and making something bad had happened to him. And at some point, I just have to leave that as the answer. Now the question is, okay, now that we know that, that sometimes good people do die like Randy, what do we do with it? And what do we do with our lives? And I'm gonna go back to jam because her favorite scripture is God causes all things to work together for good to those who love Him to those who are called according to His purpose. And we've seen this in our own lives that even when bad things happen, when we exercise intentional gratitude, it opens a door for God to use those bad circumstances as a blessing that we maybe weren't expecting. But we've also seen in our own lives and in the lives of other people that when we allow bitterness to take over, it's almost like it's closing the doors on God. Thank you for joining us, and we'll see you next time.

Welcome to the catastrophic comeback podcast with American Injury Lawyer Clark speaks, helping you find hope, purpose and joy, after a catastrophic injury.

I kind of look at it like, now that you mentioned it, it makes me think of raising kids, you know, I can tell my kids, I can keep them safe, by making them stay in their rooms, you know, but then they don't have these, you know, like my back, I told you before my kids are, you know, do their go on boats from time to time, little by themselves, you know, 1415 years old, they could take the boat and go. And they know, they got, they got trained, and they've got licensed, and they've got insurance, and we've got, and we've taught them, but it's, but I mean, I want them to have that freedom, right, and that freedom to live and have a rich, full life. But I recognize that with that freedom comes responsibility. And when that freedom comes, risk, something terrible could happen.

You've done a couple of things in the way that that you you all have raised your children that really strikes me as being the key. And that is that you have made sure that as you have raised them, you've put the relationship with them before a set of rules. And, and as a result, they've responded, you know, I've watched where, like, last night, I was watching your two daughters, and the way they were communicating with you too. And in fact, Jan and I were talking about afterwards, I said, you know, it's obvious that they have put the relationship with their children first and really worked on developing that relationship. And it's, it's wonderful to see, well,

we saw you guys do that. I mean, you guys did did that. I don't remember. I don't remember. See you. So you have three children, two daughters and a son. And I always thought that it was I don't remember anybody ever doing anything. You know, at crazy out of bounds. Everybody was, even when the kids were young, they would they would be good kids they behaved they would take care of each other, they would take care of their family, they would be there for holidays, be there for special occasions, you know, support each other at graduations and moving and weddings and, and those types of things. And so, so that's kind of that's kind of that was kind of your MO too. Is that right?

It was interesting when Dan was 12 years old, he I forgot what happened exactly. But somehow Jan, got very close to him, and was able to smell cigarette smoke. And so he had been sneaking smokes from I think a friend of his had got him to aim. And so he was sneaking smokes on the side. And of course jam came me furious about that situation and said, You're gonna need to do something to fix that.

So that's a surprise to me, because I never knew those guys to do anything wrong. But I would always be on my best behavior because I'm like, I don't want to, I don't want to be the bad egg here. You know,

what was funny? I decided because I thought, you know, whatever I do, this is kind of important. I need to get this right here. And so I just I said, Okay, Dan, you and I are going to have talk in about two or three days, because I thought, first of all, I wanted some time to think about it. Because this was important. I didn't want him to start developing lifelong habits that could be harmful to him. And, and also, I wanted him to think about it. And and really I wanted him to be worried to be honest with you. So I remember we took a walk in the woods. And of course he was he was walking behind me as we went through the woods. And I found in fact, we talked about this recently. And he said yeah, it was kind of a weird walk. And but I knew what I was going to do, I'd already prepared ahead of time. And so when I did, he was almost 13 years old. And I said Dan, you know, in Jewish society, they have something called the bar mitzvah for boys. And it happens when you're 13. Because 13 is when a boy becomes a young man and is introduced into adult society. I said, you're almost 13 now. So the truth is, you and I both know that if you decide you're going to smoke, you're going to do it. You'll do it on the sly or whatever, but you will. And I said so let me just tell you right now, that if you decide you're going to smoke, that's okay. But remember, it's my house. You can't do it in my house. But if you choose to do it, you're almost a man at 13. And so I want you to think about it and take responsibility for whatever action you decide to do. And it shocked him because he thought he was gonna get yelled at and things like that, and that he owned Way back, he said, he was excited, he was very enthusiastic. But he said, I'm gonna quit, I'm gonna quit and but he made the decision on his own. I think that's where free will comes in you've, you've got to show your children or whoever it is in your life, a deep love and affection, but at the same time, they're gonna live their life, and you gotta give them set them free to do that.

So let's bring this back to, you know, our relationship with God in these difficult situations where tragedy strikes, you know, because I think that is a very similar dynamic, right? Or the least at least, that's the way that I look at it, is that maybe God lets us make our own decisions. You know, he let your friend get on that auger that day in the snow. Yeah. And if he doesn't operate safely, or have whoever built it didn't build it safely or designed it didn't design it safely, or an accident takes place for whatever reason. You know, he He lets us make those decisions and do those things. And then And then, and then we have to deal with the consequences. Yeah. You and I watched the Parker bird podcast yesterday. And we've, I think I've talked to you about some of the other podcasts just where people have done have overcome tragedies in some pretty remarkable way. Yes. What I want to ask you is, okay, if God lets those things happen, then it's almost as if he's absent from that piece of it. The question is, where is he present? You know, and the way I look at it is, I don't think he absent in that moment is necessarily the case, but But where does he show up?

Well, in Randy, Randy was a good, faithful son, I would say to God as well. And I, as I said earlier, I don't have an answer. So while on that one, it's, it's still when I think about it, a painful tragedy. So some of my answers, I don't have an answer.

Well, let's talk about that for a minute. Because I think that's I don't think many people who are pastors are people, my perception is that pastors feel like they gotta have an answer for everything. You know, and as I'm thinking about some of the guys that I've represented, who were paralyzed, or burned, or whatever, have some really lost children, or what are parents and these terrible situations, there's no good, there's nothing good about it. There's nothing redeeming about it, there's nothing that makes is going to be a nice, pretty bow. Yeah. In for me to try to make that a, a, a pretty put a pretty bow on that I think is disingenuous. And and I feel a compulsion to try to do that. You know, what I mean, some time to try to be optimistic and positive about it. But, but some things are just bad. Yeah. So I mean, so So as a pastor, you know, do you feel an obligation to sort of turn around and make a positive thing on it? Or is it? Do you see that some things are just bad or what have you? Yes, and

no, the world is filled with chaos. And some people are going to get called in it. And it's not even necessarily bad people, like say, Randy was good. And I think about the passage in Luke, where Jesus was talking about some of the Galileans pilot had had executed some of them or I don't know exactly what happened. It wasn't wasn't clear what happened. But it said their blood was sprinkled with, with the blood that was being offered to the false gods to the Roman gods. And Jesus asked the question, are those Galileans any worse than the other Galileans who weren't executed? The answer was no. Then he said, Okay, what about the tower at Siloam? It fell, and 18 people died when it fell. Now, were those 18 people any worse than the other shoe around? And so Jesus himself was saying that chaos, the things that happen, are not discriminatory. It's not like the bad thing. It's not like God's looking for the bad people and making something bad had happened to him. And at some point, I just have to leave that as the answer. Now the question is, okay, now that we know that, that sometimes good people do die like Randy, what do we do with it? And what do we do with our lives? And I'm gonna go back to jam because her favorite scripture is God causes all things to work together for good to those who love Him to those who are called according to His purpose. And we've seen this in our own lives that even when bad things happen, when we exercise intentional gratitude, it opens a door for God to use those bad circumstances as a blessing that we maybe weren't expecting. But we've also seen in our own lives and in the lives of other people that when we allow bitterness to take over, it's almost like it's closing the doors on God. Thank you for joining us, and we'll see you next time.